by Barrie
Frank Jude Boccio and I first related over a put up by myself weblog concerning the variations between dualistic and nondualistic yoga philosophies. Like me, Frank is curious about clarifying the widespread misconceptions about these philosophies. As I’ve realized extra about his work and educating, I used to be impressed by the depth and readability with which Frank made distinctions between yoga and Buddhism and likewise identified their similarities, all of which I consider are vital for all devoted practitioners to find out about. So I approached him about doing an interview with him.
Whereas interviewing him, I appreciated studying about his background, about how his long-time research and apply has developed through the years, and about his method to yoga that’s grounded within the philosophical context of the Zen Buddhist custom. I hope you take pleasure in our interview!
Barrie: For readers who aren’t already acquainted with you, inform us little bit about your self and your work.
Frank: I used to be born and raised for the primary twenty years of my life in Queens, New York. From an early age I learn voraciously, all the things from science to mythology, and had some experiences that I solely got here to grasp once I started to learn books about Buddhism in Excessive Faculty. In addition to being launched to the pleasure and journey of literature by my mom, my mother’s ardour for music proved contagious, and I actively sought music exterior the mainstream. And once I was 12, I found each Indian Classical music and The Velvet Underground, each of which had immense affect on my life.
Indian music and books about Buddhism sparked a lifelong curiosity in India—its philosophy and tradition—but it surely wasn’t till I used to be 20 that I took my first yoga class on the World Yoga Middle and shortly after started training Zen at New York Zendo Shobo-ji. Ultimately, I discovered my solution to Integral Yoga within the West Village. It was a time when each the Yogis on the ashram and the Zen practitioners on the zendo distrusted one another’s traditions and strongly condemned any “mixing.” Later that decade I lived within the East Village, bartending at a drag queen and punk bar and writing about music and movie.
Skip ahead one other twenty years and in 1995 I licensed as a yoga trainer and two years later took precepts and was ordained into Thich Nhat Hanh’s Order of Interbeing and have become a full-time trainer. Whereas finding out Yoga with Georg Feuerstein and Soen (Korean Zen) with Samu Sunim, I wrote my guide, Mindfulness Yoga: The Woke up Union of Breath, Physique, and Thoughts. And in 2007 Sunim ordained me as a Poep Sa (Dharma Instructor).
By then, occasions had modified and I used to be invited to show at each the ashram and the Zen middle the place I started training. As for my educating, from the primary I’ve endeavored to supply a apply that evidences the nice overlap between Hindu and Buddhist Yoga, with out whitewashing the numerous theoretical and sensible variations.
Since 2007 I’ve been dwelling in Tucson, Arizona. I’ve two daughters separated by 36 years.
Barrie: Inform us about your specific method to educating yoga.
Frank: My specific method to educating yoga is to current the assorted asanas and pranayama practices which have developed out of the Hatha-Yoga custom as automobiles to domesticate and apply the assorted Buddhist meditative strategies, together with anapanasati (Mindfulness of Respiration), satipatthana (the 4 domains of mindfulness), the immeasurables (friendliness, compassion, sympathetic pleasure, and equanimity), and lojong (thoughts coaching, grounded in a Buddhist philosophical context.)
Barrie: What’s been your expertise of mixing Yoga and Buddhism, each in your apply and educating? How do the 2 traditions complement one another in your expertise?
Frank: In response to this query, I’ve to first comment that we should be clear about what which means of the phrase “Yoga” is getting used right here. The Buddha was a yogin and what he taught IS a Yoga. To cite the late, nice scholar-practitioner Georg Feuerstein:
“Yoga predates the three major indigenous spiritual cultures of Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism. They don’t seem to be a lot religions as nice cultural complexes born on the Indian subcontinent which have yogic (religious) apply at their core.”
With this understanding, I’m training and educating Yoga as quickly as I begin to give meditative directions, and with out ever providing any asana exterior of the seated meditation posture.
In my response to the earlier query, I level out that for me, I’m “mixing” the expansive postural apply of Hatha-Yoga (Hatha just isn’t a ‘type’—all types of yoga that make the most of a wide range of postural practices are Hatha) with the meditations and philosophy of Buddhist Yoga.
Lastly, if by “Yoga” one is referring to the Classical Yoga Darshana (“philosophical faculty”) of Patanjali, then what I take from which are particular sensible and pragmatic ideas in addition to providing a Buddhist interpretation of another key parts, however I do in no way resonate with the dualistic philosophical basis present in The Yoga Sutra.
Barrie: What options would you will have for people who find themselves curious about combining Buddhism and Yogic teachings? How would you counsel they method this?
Frank: Most succinctly, I’d say “with respect!” There’s a lot richness and plenty of overlaps, particularly within the meditative practices to be present in each Yoga traditions, however one should respect the numerous philosophical variations. I’d say if anybody needs to mix or combine from these two traditions, they need to floor themselves in a single philosophy or the opposite and domesticate from that basis. And mental honesty must also all the time dictate that one be clear about the place they’re basing their teachings and practices and when interpretations and alterations are being offered.
Barrie: You’ve taught philosophy in yoga trainer trainings for a few years. In your expertise, what are among the most helpful philosophical ideas that may assist folks of their on a regular basis lives?
Frank: Two linked ideas which are additionally apply oriented which can be utilized by anybody whichever worldview they floor themselves in come from the Zen Buddhist custom. First, there’s a saying: “Don’t know thoughts is most intimate.” This factors to the tendency we’ve got to concentrate to issues we don’t know however to then pay much less consideration to these folks and issues we predict we all know. We could take these folks we all know with no consideration after we do that, shedding intimacy. We could dwell a lot of our life on autopilot and lose an actual sense of embodied presence. “Don’t know thoughts” reminds us that we by no means actually know with absolute certainty, and that we may be higher off pondering as a scientist does that no matter we all know is provisional and will change with new data. Training “don’t know thoughts” might help free us from cognitive biases as nicely by merely asking ourselves, “Am I positive?”
The opposite idea and apply aligned with the spirit of “don’t know thoughts” is the proverb: “Nice questioning, nice awakening; little questioning, little awakening; no questioning, no awakening.” The second of the seven elements of awakening is dhamma vicaya, which could be translated as “the investigation of phenomena.” A lot struggling is created on the planet by those that refuse to query their views and beliefs or by accepting what their academics or texts say with out deeper investigation. The Buddha provided what is typically referred to as the “Magna Carta” for free-thinking when he advised the Kalama folks to analyze for themselves what sort of beliefs and behaviors result in happiness and peace and to domesticate them, and what sorts of beliefs and behaviors result in struggling for themselves and others and chorus from them whereas testing them towards the consensus of the smart with a view to keep away from self-deception.
Barrie: In accordance with your Wikipedia itemizing, you’re now in your mid-60s and also you began training while you had been 18, so meaning you’ve been training yoga and meditation in some type for near 50 years. That’s spectacular! In case you needed to summarize it, how has your yoga apply modified and developed through the years?
Frank: Over time, the apply has moved from one thing I do to one thing that’s merely my lifestyle. I check with apply as vocation, not rehearsal. In the identical method we communicate of a health care provider training medication (and hoping they aren’t rehearsing on us) yoga is my vocation. Formal apply nonetheless includes asana, seated and strolling meditation, prostrations, and chanting. The remainder of my life is casual apply; from the best way I attempt to take heed to what others are saying to the best way I empty my dishwasher, my intention is to do it with full presence of thoughts. I personally don’t consider in any afterlife, however whether or not there may be or not, I KNOW I’ve this life. As my trainer would say, “simply this, simply right here, simply now,” and I wish to be certain I don’t miss it however reasonably dwell life as absolutely as attainable.
Barrie: What have been an important practices and views—from both Yoga or Buddhism—which have supported your individual expertise of growing old?
Frank: Oh! A lot of Buddhist educating has made an journey of growing old! First, “Mindfulness of the Physique,” which is the primary of the “4 Domains of Mindfulness” I referred to earlier, helped me deeply penetrate the true nature of the physique by meditatively exploring the not-self nature of the physique, how it’s interdependently created and all the time altering. Second, the “5 Remembrances,” which is a contemplation launched to me by Thich Nhat Hanh within the early 90s, reminds us that there is no such thing as a escaping growing old, sickness, and loss of life; that every one of us will probably be separated from what we love and maintain pricey. That this isn’t a punishment or some type of failure on our half, however merely the pure order of issues. AND, most significantly, the fifth remembrance tells us that we can not really escape the results of our actions and that what we predict, say, and do impacts the world!
I’m positive that this apply of the 5 Remembrances made my journey via most cancers and therapy in 2019 free from concern. As I’d sit with the opposite males ready for our radiation therapy, I noticed the anxiousness, concern, and disappointment etched of their faces and was honored to be requested to share some fundamental meditation instruction to ease their struggling. I typically say that mindfulness meditation is the embodied apply of the Serenity Prayer from a non-theistic Buddhist context:
Might I domesticate the serenity to just accept the issues I can not change (like growing old, sickness, and loss of life), braveness and willpower to alter the issues I can (like a fast to anger mood), and the knowledge to discern the distinction, dwelling absolutely at some point at a time, having fun with one second at a time, taking this world as it’s and never shedding myself in delusion.
Barrie: Is there the rest you’d prefer to share?
Frank: Thanks!
Poep Sa Frank Jude Boccio is a Zen Dharma Instructor ordained by Ven. Samu Sunim, a yoga trainer, author, podcaster, and pa. His 2004 guide Mindfulness Yoga: The Woke up Union of Breath, Physique and Thoughts, printed by Knowledge Publications, continues to be the one guide of its type to base yogic postural apply on two suttas the place the Buddha gave full mindfulness meditation instruction.
Frank has travelled the world providing workshops and retreats, and provides a Mindfulness Yoga class through Zoom each Sunday. He has written for Yoga Journal, Tricycle, Shambhala Solar, Namaskar, and different journals, in addition to sustaining a number of blogs. His podcast Pobsa’s Dharma Lounge is on YouTube and all the foremost podcast platforms. He’s at the moment engaged on a follow-up to his guide that may middle teachings from the assorted Zen traditions. For extra data, go to his web site at www.mindfulnessyoga.internet.
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